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  • #16
    Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
    Thanks very much for taking the time for your detailed posts. There is obviously much to digest in your posts including how they interface with what we are trying to do with the kids in the program (it is generally more about using tennis as a "hook" to bring them in the program and we then help them with educational tutoring, mentoring, etc., then trying to necessarily make tennis champions - having said that, the hook presumably becomes bigger if they really develop as players). I would like to send back a more detailed response(s) when I have a little more time. There is much food for thought in your posts including the control vs. power issue and whether you should use one approach if you are trying to build (and have a huge number of hours to develop) a champion and another approach if the goal is more modest and there is only a limited amount of time each week to work on their games. Thanks again.
    Yes, you are right. That is a big issue. I am not really sure I could work with an athlete under those circumstances. I guess in my model you need a pure tennis rat, a kid that just wants to live at the courts. Different people come from different molds. It is sometimes hard for me to understand that. And, yes, you need a lot of time in my model, however, I am willing to put in the time if their is a high commitment (that is more than I am willing to make, that's important, yes, I am a hard working guy, however, the kid has to have better inherent traits in that department than me to make it work). Never thought about that Ed. You are right. Food for thought.
    Last edited by hockeyscout; 05-22-2015, 12:10 PM.

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    • #17
      Ben Hogan…"and I had a tough day all of my life".

      Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
      He is willing to listen but does get frustrated at times if things do not go well. I am constantly telling him that tennis puts a premium on letting go emotionally and avoiding frustration.
      Anger is the kiss of death. Frustration is of course understandable in our "Project J" case…without knowing the circumstances other than knowing what I know of your program. From writing to you rather extensively if not hypothetically some time ago. Anger is one of the seven deadly sins and for good reason. Whenever you are angry you are more than likely defeated. Defiant is another thing. But I understand your boy here…Ed. Trust me…I know a thing or two about anger. There is nothing more self defeating than anger…unless it is vanity. Don't get mad…get even. Keep in mind that the only revenge in life is success. …don_budge



      So please have this nice young man have a listen to this man. Ben Hogan. I just love this man and what he represents to the definition of sports. Some might find his attitude "old school". I love it whenever I hear this word from a modern day "techno junkie". I find it amusing to think you can buy "progress" in an app. But I found his words and particularly his story very inspiring. His words begin like this…I believe you can take them to the bank. There are things that money cannot buy…they just happen to be the most important things in life.

      "My family wasn’t rich...they were poor. I feel sorry for rich people now...I really do. Because they are never going to have the opportunity that I had. Because I knew tough things...and I had a tough day all of my life. I can handle tough things...and they can’t. Every day that I progressed was a joy to me...and I recognize it every day.

      You are talking about practicing. I just loved to practice. I hit all kinds of shots around the green...playing holes in my mind. It was great satisfaction for me. Not winning a tournament or anything like that. I got great satisfaction each and every day."
      Last edited by don_budge; 11-30-2014, 11:52 AM.
      don_budge
      Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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      • #18
        Ben Hogan…"it was the biggest check I will ever see."

        Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
        He is willing to listen but does get frustrated at times if things do not go well. I am constantly telling him that tennis puts a premium on letting go emotionally and avoiding frustration.


        People are often molded by their circumstances. There is no shame in having to come from behind. Most of us start in that position…most remain there all of their lives. But the point is exactly as Mr. Hogan lays it out. The point is to give it all you have got…leave nothing in the bag. Learn to perform like there is no tomorrow because in reality…there isn't one. At least in most cases…not much of one at any rate. There is no shame in that either. It's only a fact of life. But if you can learn to take away the lesson that Ben clearly states, in that "Every day that I progressed was a joy to me and I recognize it every day. I got great satisfaction each and every day". Take 365 baby steps in a row and that turns into a giant leap of faith!

        Ben Hogan continued…

        “We were driving to Oakland, California and Valerie said...”do you know how much money we have?” I said, “yes, I know”. We had eighty six dollars left out of the fourteen hundred. So she said, “what are we going to do?” I said...”Valerie, we made a deal to spend fourteen hundred dollars and we have eighty six left and we are going to Oakland”.”

        “We shopped all around for a hotel room...the least expensive we could find. We weren’t eating very well and buying no clothes at all. The Lengthon Hotel was gave the fellas a rate and it was the best rate I could find in all of Oakland...so we stayed there. Ok...the morning of the tournament I was driving a red Buick...a maroon Buick and across the street there was a parking lot there with gravel of course. The first round of the tournament...I had a fairly early starting time. So after breakfast I went across the street and my car was jacked up...my two rear wheels were sitting on rocks. They had even taken the jack. So I came back to the hotel and bummed a ride with somebody...I can’t remember who.”

        “Anyways...I got to the course and it was late and I couldn’t hit any practice balls. Because I would be disqualified. They give you five minutes leeway...but I needed more than five minutes. So...I played and I won three hundred and eighty five dollars. It was the biggest check that I had ever seen in my life. And I am quite sure that it will be the biggest check I will ever have seen.”

        Hogan got so much satisfaction out of that small check because he had won it against all odds. That personal win was the turning point for him in his golfing career. It turned his life around…even though he had the daily satisfaction that he was doing his absolute best. Progressing.

        I just love authenticity. Don't you?
        Last edited by don_budge; 11-30-2014, 01:26 PM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
        don_budge
        Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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        • #19
          Tiger Woods…"nobody is going to outwork me."

          Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
          He is willing to listen but does get frustrated at times if things do not go well. I am constantly telling him that tennis puts a premium on letting go emotionally and avoiding frustration.
          Remember this Ed…you may not. I wrote it to your "Wolfpack" back in July of 2011".

          "It was a crappy day for golf. It was windy, chilly and drizzling...one day long ago. A young Tiger Woods stood alone on the driving range tee of some unknown golf course pounding monstrous drives and he paused and thought to himself, "Nobody is going to outwork me! I hope my competition is home, warm and comfortable, watching TV and playing computer games." He wore a hardened, resolute look on his face as he confidently strode to the putting green to resume practicing the delicate art of scoring, it was tedious work, chipping and putting...in the in-climate, shitty weather. He was hungry, tired and cold. He was, however, on a mission." -don_budge

          I made this up…but it could have been.
          Last edited by don_budge; 12-01-2014, 12:18 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
          don_budge
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          • #20
            Originally posted by hockeyscout
            Coach ability is very overrated IMO!

            Moving on ...

            You probably know, us rich folk actually worked our asses off to get rich. My kid see's daddy on the bike, in the gym, running and exercising for five hours a day when he is retired, wealthy, has nothing to prove and is old.

            I set the standard, and of course she's going to follow.

            And yes, anger - frustration is a gift.

            Every great athlete and businessman has it, and knows how to use it (Federer and Borg included).

            The coaches, businessmen and athletes with the most anger succeeded.

            The ones who did not have it fail.

            Nick Bolletieri. Genius' in using anger. Lansdorp as well. Now I do not know if their setups are as deliberate as what I do, or if it was something unconscious they did, however, they were successful because of it.

            I read one time about Jimmy Arias getting mad and slamming his racket down. It didn't break of course. So, Bolletieri went up to the Arias, took his racket, smashed it into a thousand pieces and said,

            "Hey, if your going to slam your racket, you'd better be willing to go all the way."

            I want an athlete with anger. You can see it. You know how many rackets my young one thrown since she was five? The tennis pro's in Ukraine hate it. The club directors cry about it. I thought, these teachers earn $5.00 an hour and their students can't play! Their philosophies, techniques, vision and point construction ideals don't work, and never will.

            Anger IS VERY IMPORTANT in the developmental process. In fact, more important than the strokes, grips, techniques and tactics early on in the process.

            If you get one with anger that cares, and can do a few things (which I will outline below), you want to carefully manage this as you'll have a hell of a player on your hands.

            I often say, tennis a redheaded man's or woman's game!

            Anger is actually a two stage deal.

            Remember as youngsters Federer and Borg would always go mental?

            Every athlete has that rage. You need it. Without it, forget it. Now, you perceive the first stage to be anger. I call it something else, however, that would take to long to psychologically explain. That anger if you want to call it anger is actually a gift that needs to be harnessed.

            Some can do it internally (harness it), while others need mentorship. Its a very complex science, and NBA and NFL teams are doing so well these days in psychologically using certain traits they now know to look for in athletes to their on field advantage.

            Now, the most important part of this is mastering what I call second stage. You need to handle it at the right time, in the right place and when the athlete is ready, or you will kill their spirit, and they will quit on you and go to another field of excellence where they can develop the way their reptile athletes brain - instinct is telling them to (ever wonder why the good players are stubborn, they have hijacked areas of the brain humans do not use anymore).

            I call it lava flow!

            It is hot, powerful and it can be moulded now inward to create greatness once you've harnessed it's wild downhill flow. It can become a powerful energy inside of you, deep in the core. This volatile energy can be used, and eventually it will be atoms! So, one can power up the body for permanent strength.

            So, thank you, it is a gift which can be used, much like a magic rotator cuff, long toes, double joints!

            Now phase two, I don't really want to explain the exercises and integration processes, nor do I have the time to explain it, and if I did it would be a bottle type long thread.

            Bottom line, if you have millions in the bank, a successful business or a top 10 tennis ranking in the world will get what I discuss, and know the steps in phase two. You gotta have a track record to get this, and if you don't, forget it.

            No pretenders allowed.

            The major issue on faces when dealing with great athletes is they always think (like the rest of us humans), what is wrong (with me)! Why can't I master this faster? That's generally your source.

            In the 3-5-7-10 year developmental platform we use here (we are in phase two, however, way ahead of ourselves), we recognize in the earliest stages of an athletes development it's difficult for them to comprehend why they are not capable of doing what Roger Federer is doing on TV. Well, that is where our young ones head is at LOL.

            Athletes who are world class have EGO's, and they believe in their heads they are # 1 in the world, and therefor the pathways is fraught with a lot of fear (which comes out as anger). Athletes generally are not interested in what others think, they are constantly over analyzing the smallest of details, working it all out on their own, dreaming about it and they have unrealistic expectations. This all gets pent up! And, boom. It happened to Roger, Bjorn and every other great athlete. The complete blowup!

            I call it phase one. It really should not bother coaches, however, it does because they do not understand the process, and certainly not how to deal with it.

            Now, when you are dealing with young kids or Junior's you are also dealing with neurological systems. At times with good young athletes, they overload themselves, and then you start to see them being emotional (which is something every great athlete is, they train to the point of crying). McEnroe, Sampras and Agassi, three examples. The "great coach" Pancho thought Andre was to emotional to be a world number one (and small). Andre was simply training in a system taking the ball on the rise and combining it with Olympic boxing movement, and it would fry the hell out of his neurological electrical system all day and he could not figure out why!

            To expand a bit on this one. Superb athletes never get sore. They can train longer hours. It all has to do with the fact they've somehow activated a bigger and better neurological chain, likely through better skill set work.

            The good ones don't get tired, what happens is they blow themselves out. The average guy goes to bed and is sore, hurting and aching. Think of an athlete like a tire, 99 percent are blown up like a tire, they have pin holes and big blowout holes that will need to be patched.

            The world class athlete is much different. They are naturally durable thanks to a better kinetic chain, and second, when they get tired they simply lose air from the tire and are in a relaxed gumby like state. They don't puncture or break.

            If you've ever worked with a bad trainer you wake up sore and hurting in the morning, and if you've ever worked out with a guy trainer or coach like me, you wake up in the morning, you are not sore, and you cannot even move out of bed because you simply can't get the tire moving!

            You are deflated and flat.Obviously, I know how my athlete will feel, and react to what I do, so I can organize things in a way to get maximum peak results over say a 90 day period (Federer I guess uses a 40 day period), and properly fire what I need what I need to do to sequentially develop a better athlete with a real long term plan in mind.

            So, all of this emotion, crying, anger, their is a reason for it.

            And, it is good

            And, its part of the process!
            Humility and class are also a part of sport. Of which, you have none.

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            • #21
              Anger

              Not sure about anger and the development of a champion other than I am sure it is a pretty complex discussion and individual dependent. I do think that there is a difference between self destructive anger that many people suffer from and the type of anger that a McEnroe or a Pancho Gonzales had which made them play better in a match.

              In any event, for an organization such as ours, there is no choice. We need to teach the kids to control their emotion and display good sportsmanship. Many of the clubs in the area where we play our team matches also support our program with free or discounted court time and/or are otherwise supportive. We our guests in their clubs and need to act accordingly. I also think it is a good life lesson to learn. I also think that the sportsmanship aspect of tennis helps make it unique. Whatever anger issues Federer might have had when he was young, I am sure that his overall good sportsmanship as a pro is one of the reasons that the guy never plays an away match and is universally loved.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by 10splayer View Post
                Humility and class are also a part of sport. Of which, you have none.
                Thank you.

                (-:
                Last edited by hockeyscout; 05-22-2015, 12:12 PM.

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                • #23
                  I have to say on another note, I have respect you for running a program of this nature. I do not like this new age of "Money Sport", and the service of providing kids lessons. This sport of tennis is sad in many ways. In Canadian hockey we were never grateful to a club for giving us ice time. Their were no fancy clubs. It was all local associations, and mom and dads carrying the mail. Team effort. We EXPECTED it would be given to us, as sport IS A RIGHT for kids. I like the hockey setup of old in Canada where dads (who played Junior - Pro hockey), uncles, grandparents, police officers, bank managers, lawyers and local businessman who were successful individuals working with the kids after school and on weekends for nothing. You know how much I paid to play hockey in Canada when I was 12. ZERO. Why? Well, the community leaders were expected to take the ball by the horn, and pay for it.

                  Tennis needs more guys who are successful in other fields of life to come back into the game and volunteer their time, just like hockey.

                  The sport needs the associations to stop this pay to play model which has allowed an infestation of all the wrong people into the sport. I am shocked looking at the USTA and LTA's books, and appalled seeing individuals being paid $800,000 a year, money spent on hotels, needless travel and putting in place this absolutely stupid kids tennis where the extra equipment costs exorbitant rates.

                  It kind of amazes me by law in this country (and others) all these non-profit clubs where land is given to them tax free, and development grants are even provided that they have the nerve to put in place a board of directors and organizers on salary. Its a bunch of corrupted individuals who can't make it in the real world, hiding behind charities and pocketing cash at the expense of the kids.

                  Thats my rant for today.
                  Last edited by hockeyscout; 05-22-2015, 12:17 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Ben Hogan…"the only way that I can win is to outwork these fellows."

                    Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
                    He is willing to listen but does get frustrated at times if things do not go well. I am constantly telling him that tennis puts a premium on letting go emotionally and avoiding frustration.
                    Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                    "It was a crappy day for golf. It was windy, chilly and drizzling...one day long ago. A young Tiger Woods stood alone on the driving range tee of some unknown golf course pounding monstrous drives and he paused and thought to himself, "Nobody is going to outwork me! I hope my competition is home, warm and comfortable, watching TV and playing computer games." He wore a hardened, resolute look on his face as he confidently strode to the putting green to resume practicing the delicate art of scoring, it was tedious work, chipping and putting...in the in-climate, shitty weather. He was hungry, tired and cold. He was, however, on a mission." -don_budge


                    "I can handle tough things."-Ben Hogan

                    Tennis is a game of energy and balance. This is a physical equation with regards to the physics and metaphysics of the actual means of hitting a tennis ball but the same can also be said with regards to the mental and emotional aspects of the game. It's mental gymnastics. The emphasis of your program…as it is with my program is not one of producing professional tennis players but to teach people, young and old, that tennis is a game to be played for a lifetime. A game to be enjoyed in your leisure time…if you are blessed to have any.

                    Each person that comes to our little program here is an individual. Not one of them so far has come to us with the aspirations of being a professional tennis player. My goal with each and every student that comes through our tennis hall is that the hour that they have spent with me is making them more fit somehow to deal with the ordeal of everyday life. I try to teach "the balance". You can understand why Welby Van Horn really resonated with me…even my teaching paradigm. He fits in there very neatly.

                    Everyday life comes with it's own frustrations. Be it from the job…from your significant other. Be it from family or other circumstances. Tennis has been a great asset in my life helping me to find the balance…so has golf. When I was a young boy we moved to a new neighbourhood and the other children on the playground noticed that I looked different from them and they thought it would be fun to call me names that were associated with my looks. It upset me so badly that I could barely hold back the tears.

                    When I came in from the playground by chance I had vocal music class immediately after recess. My teacher was an old woman by the name of Mrs. Shunaman. She noticed that I was upset and on the verge of tears…I must have been around nine years old at the time. She took me out in the hall and asked me what was wrong and I think that I started crying and probably blubbering…but I managed to tell her. Straight away she took me down to the little gymnasium and gave me a large rubber ball and told me to throw it against the wall. That done she said do it again. Next she said throw it a little harder…over and over. After some repeated throws against the wall she took me by the arm and looked me in the eyes and asked me…"how do you feel?" I said…"a little better". Good she said and she led me back to class.

                    Ironically I have been seeking my therapy hitting inanimate objects all of my life. It makes me feel better. Tennis and golf…God's greatest gifts to mankind in terms of recreation.

                    As Ben Hogan said…"my life has been a tough day"…well so has mine. So has yours. So is everyone's. There are lessons to be taken away in life…from dealing with frustrating situations. It's best to not lose your head. It's best to stay clear and think. Deep breaths. Anger is one thing…control is another. I know that you understand this.

                    Ben Hogan goes on in the video to talk about an incident that happened to him. It really isn't clear in the video but he is talking about an accident that he had in his car with his wife. They were hit head on by a truck and he threw himself over her to save her and in the process he was badly damaged in his legs. There were the obvious doubts and concerns as to whether he would ever play golf again. Hogan could very well have been angry…angry at life and his rotten luck. He could have started to drink or get hooked on pain killers. He could have taken it out on his wife. Instead…he went home and convalesced his injuries and then he started the long journey back to try and regain the form that had made him the best golfer in the world. He learned his lessons early on in life. Ben took what he could from every single day. Nothing is handed to you. This is what he had to say…about working his way back.


                    “I started working just as hard as I could work. Even more than eight hours a day. I used to putt and pitch in our bedroom at night. It took me eleven months to where I could play at all. Finally I got to where I could play a little bit...not as good as I could play before. I don’t think I ever will play that good...or ever have since. Even though I have won some tournaments. But I was better in 1948 and 1949 than I have ever been.”

                    “I had to practice and play all of the time. I told you before...my swing wasn’t the best in the world and I knew it wasn’t. Well...I thought the only way that I can win is to outwork these fellows. So they might work two hours a day and I’d work eight. So...then I noticed after I won a couple of tournaments that these fellows were practicing longer and I don’t know why that was. But they had to to stay with me. If there had been twelve hours in the day, I would have been out there twelve hours. Because I enjoyed it.”

                    Life is a game of energy and balance. One certainly can get angry at the fate that has been cast to them. The trick is to manage it. As bad as it is…you have to manage the dysfunction. My life has been a tough day…that is what Ben Hogan said. But the son of a gun didn't have any "quit" in him. The only things this old world understands is hard work. Anger will prompt one to seek revenge or retribution. It is best that the energy is channeled more constructively.

                    "Project J" is in the thick of it…just like anybody else that is born into this world. It's a game of energy and balance. Sure it is. When you are in a tennis match there are going to be lots of reasons to be frustrated. There is nowhere to lash out to. You certainly cannot afford to implode. All that you can do is try to keep a cool head and hang in there and fight. Fight to the last point. Then…you go up and shake your opponents hand. Win or lose. You may want to punch him in the mouth with every ounce of your fiber. But that is going to very counterproductive to harbour feelings like that.

                    Roger Federer put on a clinic a couple of weeks ago. He got an absolutely rotten call in the semifinals at the Barclay's in London tournament against Stan Wawrinka. He was really flustered and felt naked in front of everyone. Afterall they could see that he was on the verge of imploding. But he kept his cool…at least outwardly. Thereby not revealing to his opponent just how devastating that it felt to him. Then he got back to the business at hand and ended up winning what I think was the most exciting tennis match of the year.

                    This is one of the great lessons of tennis. Even the great players are tried in this manner. We common folk can learn the same. There really is no point in wasting precious energy on anger…it is best to try and solve the problem at hand. Ben Hogan had the right idea. It's a long haul. No sense on stopping and dwelling on the short term frustration. Just like my imaginative internal Tiger Woods conversation with himself. You gotta believe that you are a "Mission Man". Getting angry about things only cuts into the time that you could be out working and practicing.

                    I would like to personally tell "Project J" a couple of these things. Teach this young man a thing or two about humility and class along the way and he will be thanking you for the rest of his life. I know how he feels. I was lucky too…like Hogan. I recommend he take a lesson in anger management from either Tiger Woods or Ben Hogan. Or even good old don_budge.
                    Last edited by don_budge; 12-01-2014, 03:01 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
                    don_budge
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                    • #25
                      So much noise ...

                      I doubt sincerely Tiger Woods should be teaching any classes in ethics, class and anger management. Call his ex wife, don_budge, she is in the same zip code as you in Sweden I believe. I am sure she will fill you in. I've heard a few stories about how he's treated his ex-girlfriends as well. To even put Tiger Woods in the same sentence as Ben Hogan, a man who once got into a car accident, and dived in front of his wife to save her life before thinking of himself is kind of an insult to his legacy.

                      I cannot even begin to tell you the perfect storm hockey in Canada is, and how brilliant the coaches are in engaging young kids and turning them into professionals. In my area, so many 1973 and 1974 kids made it, and it was because we had individuals who made us want to come to the rink, win and be the best! And the guys I played with who did not make it, I can only think of a couple who weren't absolute studs in the world of family and business.

                      I like dealing with guys who have track records, as opposed to ones who can string along some fancy words and tell the world what they want to hear. The Russian Federation is the best at this, they talk about character, their love for developing kids, life lessons, how they want to instill a lifetime love of the game into their children ETC, and then you hear a derogatory comment about Serena being a man, or see them berate Maria Sharapova's father when she was 17, saying he lacked class. Come on, who is kidding who?
                      Last edited by hockeyscout; 05-22-2015, 12:18 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by EdWeiss View Post
                        Not sure about anger and the development of a champion other than I am sure it is a pretty complex discussion and individual dependent.
                        Absolutely right. It's actually close to impossible to help you with this one as we don't know the boy. Some kids are reachable, some aren't. We aren't messiahs. Coaches see these kind of kids once a week and do their best. I'd wager you are good with kids, Ed. If you cannot resolve anger issues, it's doubtful anyone else can.

                        Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                        Anger is the kiss of death.
                        Never a truer word said...

                        Originally posted by 10splayer View Post
                        Humility and class are also a part of sport.
                        They certainly are, yet all to often get overlooked.
                        Stotty

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                        • #27
                          Just to be clear on this particular boy, he gets frustrated and stops really trying, focusing, etc. He does not get angry and throw his racket, etc.

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                          • #28
                            Learn through Opposites

                            All about harnessing opposites-- isn't it? The idea of creative anger however is an ARCH-IDEA never to be confused with self-destructive anger. The only reason I can see for confusing the two is that the person (perversely) wants to.

                            Listen, I rowed on a club team in college for all four years. The dean, Admiral Durgin, had graduated from Annapolis and knew how expensive my sport was. He and his bozo athletic director went out of their way to thwart us at every turn, especially whenever we tried to "get recognition," i.e., become a college or varsity sport.

                            Then one day we beat Boston University. The huge guy who rowed number four was so surprised and pissed off that he rubbed his shirt in tar from the blacktop street next to Narragansett Boat Club before handing it over. (That was self-destructive anger.) At the end of the year we won the biggest regatta in America even though we had four small guys along with four big ones in the boat. The next year we won it again and the year after that. This was in Philadelphia.

                            Our junior year the college president, who had read an article I wrote edited by Richard Holbrooke, sent a secretary to fetch me up to his office and tell him about the rowing program.

                            Two weeks later Bill Engeman, the captain and I wrote up the proposal for our formal recognition. We were given varsity letters for that year along with the option either of hiring a varsity coach for our senior year or continuing to be a club and stay with Rhode Island School of Design student Whitey Helander whom we met in a Providence bar. We chose club and Whitey as any sane people would.

                            I am still pissed off that the University of Washington rowing with one person unconscious illegally cut us off in the Intercollegiate Rowing Association Championship on Lake Onondaga in Syracuse-- the only thing that kept us from winning the three-mile race. But glad that Avery Brundage noticed and saw to it that we competed in the 1960 Olympic Trials also in Syracuse.

                            I am still pissed off that Whitey had to do National Guard Duty, but glad that the U.S. Naval Academy invited us to train in Annapolis with one of THEIR coaches. If that hadn't happened I wouldn't know what I know about that place.

                            I am still pissed off that the Navy lightweight coach overtrained us and that we led in both of our races for a trip to Rome but couldn't complete the job. My optimal pulling weight was between 178 and 182 . At the beginning of the Olympic Trials my weight was 162 .

                            That little story still makes me more competitive in tennis than I otherwise would be.

                            My crew personally interviewed a bunch of aspiring crew coaches (we interviewed them by letting them coach us one by one) and made a choice for the year after most of us left. A member of our crew later coached the first women's crew, who later than that were invited a couple of times to The White House.

                            The men meanwhile race frequently at Henley in England. They have so far won the U.S. national championship three times. To celebrate our accomplishment there is a plaque with the names of my crew on it on the side of the Hunter Marston boathouse (I personally made first contact with Mr. Hunter Marston of Continental Can, who at that time lived in Watch Hill, R.I.).

                            To say the whole package was a formative college experience would be understatement-- especially formative when Brown University had its thumb on us pressing down. I suppose I could thank the late Admiral Durgin and Paul Mackesey for inspiring us, but no, recollecting them just pisses me off.

                            We were all very well-mannered and still are but very pissed off too.

                            And if you don't think I was filled with glee every time, as publicity chairman, I fired off a press release to the Providence Journal, you would be sadly mistaken. And I was delighted of course at the subsequent features on us in The New York Times, The New York Herald Tribune and Sports Illustrated.

                            In between my sessions of writing publicity, I had to regain the humility endemic to eight-oared rowing and teamwork and sports anywhere. Fear or anger however was the true driver-- the fear of not doing well.

                            P.S. It sounds like I am very proud of Brown Crew. I am, and am especially proud of the women and all the national championships they have won. But I have met the men, including national champions, and didn't find them as motivated as us and wouldn't change places with them ever.
                            Last edited by bottle; 12-01-2014, 08:11 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bottle View Post
                              All about harnessing opposites-- isn't it? The idea of creative anger however is an ARCH-IDEA never to be confused with self-destructive anger. The only reason I can see for confusing the two is that the person (perversely) wants to.

                              Listen, I rowed on a club team in college for all four years. The dean, Admiral Durgin, had graduated from Annapolis and knew how expensive my sport was. He and his bozo athletic director went out of their way to thwart us at every turn, especially whenever we tried to "get recognition," i.e., become a college or varsity sport.

                              Then one day we beat Boston University. The huge guy who rowed number four was so surprised and pissed off that he rubbed his shirt in tar from the blacktop street before handing it over. (That was self-destructive anger.) At the end of the year we won the biggest regatta in America even though we had four small guys in the boat. The next year we won it again and the year after that.

                              Our junior year the college president, who had read an article I wrote edited by Richard Holbrooke, sent a secretary to fetch me up to his office and tell him about the rowing program.

                              Two weeks later Bill Engeman, the captain and I wrote up the proposal for our formal recognition. We were given varsity letters for that year but given the option either of hiring a varsity coach for our senior year or continuing to be a club and stay with Rhode Island School of Design student Whitey Helander whom we met in a Providence bar. We chose club and Whitey as any sane people would.

                              I am still pissed off that the University of Washington rowing with one person unconscious illegally cut us off in the Intercollegiate Rowing Association Championship on Lake Onondaga in Syracuse-- the only thing that kept us from winning the three-mile race. But glad that Avery Brundage noticed and saw to it that we competed in the 1960 Olympic Trials also in Syracuse.

                              I am still pissed off that Whitey had to do National Guard Duty, but glad that the U.S. Naval Academy invited us to train in Annapolis with one of THEIR coaches. If that hadn't happened I wouldn't know what I know about that place.

                              I am still pissed off that the Navy coach overtrained us and that we led in both of our races for a trip to Rome but couldn't complete the job. My optimal pulling weight was between 178 and 182 . At the beginning of the Olympic Trials my weight was 162 .

                              That little story still makes me more competitive in tennis than I otherwise would be.

                              My crew personally interviewed a bunch of aspiring crew coaches (we interviewed them by letting them coach us one by one) and made a choice for the year after most of us left. A member of our crew later coached the first women's crew, who later than that were invited a couple of times to The White House.

                              The men meanwhile race frequently at Henley in England. They have so far won the national championship here three times. There is a plaque with the names of my crew on it on the side of the Hunter Marston boathouse (I personally made first contact with Mr. Hunter Marston of Continental Can).

                              To say the whole package was a formative college experience would be understatement-- especially formative when Brown University had its thumb on us pressing down. I suppose I could thank the late Admiral Durgin and Paul Mackesey for inspiring us, but no, recollecting them just pisses me off.

                              We were all very well-mannered and still are but very pissed off too.

                              And if you don't think I was filled with glee every time, as publicity chairman, I fired off a press release to the Providence Journal, you would be sadly mistaken. And I was delighted of course at the features on us in The New York Times, The New York Herald Tribune and Sports Illustrated.

                              In between my sessions of writing publicity, I had to regain the humility endemic to eight-oared rowing and teamwork anywhere. Fear or anger, however, was the true driver-- the fear of not doing well.
                              Thanks for this. I found it a good read. I guess the drivers can vary from person to person. I get the fear thing...but at the end of the day a person doesn't have to do it, they can walk away. For many of these types it must be love that keeps them doing it.

                              What was it Voltaire said in Candide..."life is a heavy burden but you can always throw it down"....something like that.
                              Stotty

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                                Thanks for this. I found it a good read. I guess the drivers can vary from person to person. I get the fear thing...but at the end of the day a person doesn't have to do it, they can walk away. For many of these types it must be love that keeps them doing it.

                                What was it Voltaire said in Candide..."life is a heavy burden but you can always throw it down"....something like that.
                                Yes, you're right. Fear and anger probably are just a part of it, a subset. I loved the videos hockeyscout posted showing real hockeyplayers working on their sticks-- how INTRICATE and ELABORATE it all is. Because they love every small detail of their sport. You wouldn't believe what it's like when a bunch of oarsmen or former oarsmen get together and recollect every side swell and seagull in a race sixty years before and discuss the book THE BOYS IN THE BOAT. And it doesn't matter where they rowed. Same thing with horse people having a discussion of fescues and the Coppola film BLACK BEAUTY especially where Beauty tramples the cobra about to bite the boy.

                                Knowing what I do about specialism in sports, I just feel sorry for people never to be so lucky as to have a big sports obsession whatever the game or sport including billiards and theater (and I realize I just used the word "sport" or "sports" three or five times in this sentence).
                                Last edited by bottle; 12-01-2014, 09:08 AM.

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