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Karen Khachanov - full western?

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  • Karen Khachanov - full western?

    Jim's photos of Karen Khachanov are revealing if anyone has taken a look. They are in this month's issue.

    https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...ren_khachanov/

    Coaches often talk of full western grips as if they are some sort of terrible disease. Nevertheless they are becoming more prevalent. At Wimbledon I have seen plenty of full western grips the last few years.

    I know from experience that once a child's grip swivels round to full western it becomes quickly established and difficult to reverse. You can see why many coaches give up trying to reverse or rectify full western grips.

    How players play with full western is beyond me. When I try it the ball slams straight into the ground.

    But should coaches stress themselves over full western grips? Should we just go with the flow? If kids are stubborn about changing and seem to getting along fine, should we just leave them to it?
    Stotty

  • #2
    Karen is pretty much in a full western I think also, as is Nick, Sock, are at least closer to it than a semi. Their palms, if they were to open their hands at contact, would be facing the sky it looks to me.

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    • #3
      Hope people like my album of K2 !
      Here's a trivial photo. I kept staring at his forehand takeback, wondering what it reminded me of.
      Finally dawned on me, so I did this silly composite, at the Flickr link. Couldn't resist <g> / jim
      https://flic.kr/p/2gaqQr4

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
        Hope people like my album of K2 !
        Here's a trivial photo. I kept staring at his forehand takeback, wondering what it reminded me of.
        Finally dawned on me, so I did this silly composite, at the Flickr link. Couldn't resist <g> / jim
        https://flic.kr/p/2gaqQr4
        Great visual analogy. You wouldn't want to get stung by either!
        Stotty

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        • #5
          Ouch! A fellow punster <g>.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
            Hope people like my album of K2 !
            Here's a trivial photo. I kept staring at his forehand takeback, wondering what it reminded me of.
            Finally dawned on me, so I did this silly composite, at the Flickr link. Couldn't resist <g> / jim
            https://flic.kr/p/2gaqQr4
            insane shots!
            what lens?

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            • #7
              Gulbis looks full western to me:

              http://www.tennisgrandstand.com/wp-c...sts-Gulbis.jpg
              Stotty

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              • #8
                And many of the women on the tour have grips that are clearly very extreme:

                https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/asse...ge-gallery.jpg
                Stotty

                Comment


                • #9
                  And this grip is about as far round as you can go before coming back again. I stand to be correctly, but I feel this is actually a strong continental grip. She is just hitting with the opposite face to the racket.

                  https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b9lIIiJ16sA/hqdefault.jpg
                  Stotty

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by stotty View Post
                    And this grip is about as far round as you can go before coming back again. I stand to be correctly, but I feel this is actually a strong continental grip. She is just hitting with the opposite face to the racket.

                    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b9lIIiJ16sA/hqdefault.jpg
                    i always thought "conti on wrong side" was "hawaiian" (ala berestegui)...
                    that's how i used to hit, before switching to E/SW.
                    developed as a junior playing alot of moonballers without the benefit of a coach warning/guiding me to "hit through the ball more"... at the time the "crazy hawaiian grip spin" was enough to win alot of matches against 3.5 level hs juniors (the academy kids always used my ball as a sitter).
                    Last edited by nytennisaddict; 06-15-2019, 10:29 AM.

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                    • #11
                      I have always thought the Hawaiian fh grip was just a reverse Continental also. Beresategui was the true master of it and hit a massive forehand with it. No male player uses it now to me. Sock, Karen, Nick, Tiafoe, even retired Igor Andreev and Brugera are all in some version of a western to me.
                      Last edited by stroke; 06-17-2019, 01:58 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nytennisaddict View Post

                        insane shots!
                        what lens?
                        Thanks! 300 mm f2.8 on Nikon Z7 using FTZ (converts F-mount lenses for Z-mount camera, likely more than you want to know <g>}

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stotty View Post

                          Great visual analogy. You wouldn't want to get stung by either!
                          Aaarrrrgggh! But I guess I'm asking for that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post

                            Thanks! 300 mm f2.8 on Nikon Z7 using FTZ (converts F-mount lenses for Z-mount camera, likely more than you want to know <g>}
                            nice. i'm a canon guy myself... wwas considering the 300f2.8 and 400f2.8 when my kids' were playing soccer, but then they wanted me to coach instead.... can't justify the cost for anything else.... but those were great pics. i'll have to settle for using my 70-200f2.8+1.4x extender on 7d body.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stroke View Post
                              I have always thought the Hawaiian fh grip was just a reverse Continental also. Beresategui was the true master of it and hit a massive forehand with it. No male player uses it now to me. Sock, Karen, Nick, Tiafoe, even retired Igor Andreev and Brugera are all in some version of a western to me.
                              What about Coric? I get that these are all pro players and that they are uber talented... But isn't this making their lives difficult. I mean it cannot be good for the arm and would their forehand be worse with a SW or even a strong Eastern.

                              I get that these habits develop very early and hard to break. What I see once players stop practicing hours every day is a much weaker shot with age. A lot of the older players I hit with have trouble generating the same spin and pace with age using extreme grips. The ball tends to sit up and the slice works like a charm against the extreme grips.

                              My sense is that this will always be a liability. It is just too much work for a person to keep hitting this ball over and over again.

                              Are there any extreme western players in their 30's on the tour?

                              Comment

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