Doing Your Own High Speed Video Analysis Simply and Inexpensively

[seano10s]

camera workflow

Boxer -

It sounds like w/ all your walking, you're using a tripod. With the fh100, I just hold it in hand and shoot. When I have the video I want, I attach the USB cord and download it to my laptop, that's courtside. I've previously downloaded the Casio Digital Camera software, that came w/ the camera, and the video I have shot is loaded in less than 1 minute.
To view the footage, I use V1 Sports (very inexpensive but excellent) and can view the video, draw lines, determine angles, use circles etc. I can also use a split screen or even overlay 2 subjects. I have accumulated a nice pro stroke library, as well as, student library. With the ability for students to view their strokes, use split screen or overlay, it is an amazing teaching tool to compare your students w/ themselves or the pro's.

[boxer]

can I ask about work flow??

With so many experts in this thread, I almost hesitate to step in but if I may, I'd like to ask about workflow.

I'm lucky enough to have an EX-FH100 in the family and it does capture pretty well -- up here in the PacNW we're indoors most of the time so low light and all but if you don't mind a bit of grain you can see what's going on.

My questions are more to do with best practices for using the camera and court time.

I did once get to play with a Dartfish set up. There you can get a remote control that will set the camera into record mode on command and then the capture the raw footage direct to a PC so you have instant playback so long as you have a laptop and a firewire cable handy.

By contrast, what I can get with the Casio is much clearer -- high frame rate and high shutter speeds really make for better visibility, especially for serves which is my particular interest (...ahem, challenge ). But on the other hand, the tiny screen is pretty difficult for on the spot feedback and downloading to a laptop is sort of laborious (pull the card or cable up). And of course there's no remote so for me working alone I get almost more footage of walking back and forth to the camera to operate it than anything else.

I guess what I'm wondering is if anyone has tips or tricks for best practices using the equipment on court as one is trying to work on some technique aspect. In my case I'm just joe amateur working by myself but it would probably even help to understand the steps and process people use with more than one pair of hands -- perhaps there's something I can adapt there.

Cheers,

Mark.

[jeffreycounts]

Thanks, jc, I am considering this. It's just a shame the latest cameras don't have manual shutters because they are loaded with stuff the older Casio's don't have.

I have the original EX-F1, but if I had known they were going to discontinue it and never add manual shutter again to their other cameras I would have bought three of them. Such a shame that this incredible camera is discontinued.

[johnyandell]

Yeah but the new stuff doesn't really add that much. The idea is to see strokes frame by frame in shuttered high speed video...filming matches is something else and you don't need high speed...

[stotty]

Do you have one of the discontinued Casio's John mentions in the article? They would do everything you need - just need to buy it used though.

Thanks, jc, I am considering this. It's just a shame the latest cameras don't have manual shutters because they are loaded with stuff the older Casio's don't have.

[jeffreycounts]

It's a bit like finding the Holy Grail this. You see, I want a manual shutter that operates when filming in high speed mode AND a powerful zoom. The Canon EOS Rebel T3i (EOS 600D) would be fine but it only comes with a 7.5 optical zoom. Other cameras have the zoom but not the manual shutter...nightmare. I guess a bloke like John must have a handful of cameras for different jobs...but I want to hit all the specs with just one camera.

Many camera's have specs that show a manual shutter, but the specs don't reveal whether the manual shutter becomes disabled when shooting using high speed. You just have to phone and ask.

I am preparing a blanket email to send to all the manufacturers of cameras and camcorders that will ask all the relevant questions. If there is anything out there, rest assured Stotty will find it.

Do you have one of the discontinued Casio's John mentions in the article? They would do everything you need - just need to buy it used though.

[stotty]

The Holy Grail

It's a bit like finding the Holy Grail this. You see, I want a manual shutter that operates when filming in high speed mode AND a powerful zoom. The Canon EOS Rebel T3i (EOS 600D) would be fine but it only comes with a 7.5 optical zoom. Other cameras have the zoom but not the manual shutter...nightmare. I guess a bloke like John must have a handful of cameras for different jobs...but I want to hit all the specs with just one camera.

Many camera's have specs that show a manual shutter, but the specs don't reveal whether the manual shutter becomes disabled when shooting using high speed. You just have to phone and ask.

I am preparing a blanket email to send to all the manufacturers of cameras and camcorders that will ask all the relevant questions. If there is anything out there, rest assured Stotty will find it.

[johnyandell]

I have the FH 25.

Indoors you can usually get 120 frames with a shutter of around 1/750 opening the lens all the way and also bumping to iso all the way up.

That's the shot in the article.

[tennis_chiro]

What settings do you use?

Something will break eventually. But for now it's discontinued casios...

John, it seems to me you have the same EF20 Casio that I do. What manual settings do you use? What is the minimum shutter speed you need to get decent clear shots? What can you get away with in lower light conditions?

thanks,
don

[johnyandell]

Something will break eventually. But for now it's discontinued casios...

[jasonfrausto]

I think the manual settings don't apply at the higher frame rates. If you want to shoot higher then you are stuck with auto.

We ordered one of these: JVGCPX1001GC-PX100 Full HD Everio Camcorder



And ended up sending it back because of the shutter limitations.

Well, that plan is out the window I guess! Thanks for the info.

[tennis_chiro]

You are correct!

I think the manual settings don't apply at the higher frame rates. If you want to shoot higher then you are stuck with auto.

We ordered one of these: JVGCPX1001GC-PX100 Full HD Everio Camcorder



And ended up sending it back because of the shutter limitations.

You're right. I just checked. When I go to the high speed recording mode (300 fps), it tells me I still have manual controls on, but when I go into the menus, the shutter speed and all the manual adjustments are no longer available. But you can shoot in 60p and still have access to the shutter speed controls. That's 60 full frames per second. But 60p will not play back in QuickTime. You'll have to process it through something else, so we are essentially back to the same place!

don

[johnyandell]

I think the manual settings don't apply at the higher frame rates. If you want to shoot higher then you are stuck with auto.

We ordered one of these: JVGCPX1001GC-PX100 Full HD Everio Camcorder



And ended up sending it back because of the shutter limitations.

[tennis_chiro]

Shutter speed adjustments

Jason,

What is the shutter speed on those?

Stotty, Don,

Same question for the JVC?

I don't even remember exactly what I found for Stotty on that GC-PX100, but it seems to me that was the newer upgraded model of what I have in the GZ-GX1, the camera I got last fall. I haven't had to use the manual settings, but I wanted to check for you.

Indeed, the GZ-GX1 does have manual setting in the video as well as still photo mode. I can manually set shutter speed, aperture, white balance, backlight compensation and focus. The shutter speed can be set from 1/2 second to 1/4000 sec with plenty of intermediates along the way: 1/2, 1/2.5, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/13, 1/15, 1/20, 1/25, 1/30, 1/40, 1/50, 1/60, 1/80, 1/100, 1/120, 1/160, 1/200, 1/250, 1/320, 1/400, 1/500, 1/640, 1/800, 1/1000, 1/1250, 1/1600, 1/2000, 1/2500, 1/3200, 1/4000.

This is probably a pretty important technical capability for someone who understands photography and filmaking a lot more than I do. I just know the camera takes good slow motion in very low light. But I use the automatic setting and I think it has a lot to do with the wide angle lens, an F1.2-2.8. Not only is it advantageous for wide angle shots of the entire baseline with a fencemount shot, but the wider aperture lets in more light and this enables the camera to work well in lower light situations. I think this could be very important for Stotty under his "floodlights". I wonder how much candlepower you have. Tennis lights can vary tremendously.

But the other thing I seem to remember about the GC-PX100 was that it recorded simpler files than the HD AVCHD files I get with the GZ-GX1, like AVI's or .MOV's. That means you can take the files directly into an iPad and upload to the Dartfish Express software that costs about $10 and you can immediately view your instructional recordings and play them back on the much bigger iPod screen. You can't go from AVCHD files directly to Quicktime Player. You are going to have to convert them in something else to a file that Quicktime will recognize. I do it with the full version of Dartfish, but I prefer to use my Casio ExFH-20 which records AVI files that I can take immediately into different things to play back, including Quicktime and V1Home. I intend to get an iPad as soon as I can afford it. I got the GZ-GX1 for fencemounted match recording and it is great for that. I keep it handy when I am working under the lights because the slomo on the Casio is very poor under the lights. The JVC is much better for that. Perhaps I should be playing with those manual settings to get it even better still. What settings should I be using an night, anybody? John? With daylight the auto settings seem more than adequate. Actually, shooting an night with the regular speed setting: HD at 30 fps, even the Casio takes pretty good videos. Of course, it's only at 30 fps. I haven't played with the manual settings to see if I could get somewhat crisper individual frames with that.

Hope that helps a little bit.

don
PS John, couldn't you use me and my camera to do some extra filming for you at Indian Wells next year?

[johnyandell]

The golf swings look good! They are obviously shuttered. The second one is darker and also shuttered at relatively high speed.