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  • Any filming plans for 2020?

    Talk around the campfire is that Tsitsipas' forehand is incredibly heavy, and I think Thiem has the inch for inch best serve on tour. Would also love a feature on Kyrgios' serve. Currently think Shapovolov has the cleanest most pure serve on tour. Absolutely nothing extra and brutally effective.

    J
    Last edited by jrlaible; 11-25-2019, 07:33 AM.

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    • Good suggestions and now on a (long!) list.

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      • Ever thought of starting a coaching lexicon page here on Tennisplayer? People get confused about pronation and internal shoulder rotation it seems and misunderstand what they are. You tend to talk about arm, hand, racket rotation as items separate/in addition to internal shoulder rotation. Is their a name for the arm, hand, racket rotation sequence? Or do we need to invent one?
        Stotty

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        • Nah. It's all there in the articles. But maybe

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          • Originally posted by johnyandell View Post
            JR,

            Good thoughts. But what is w/r/t? In all the grip articles I write anyway I always refer to both key points--knuckle and heel pad. You can check it out in this month's 1HBH article. I love Pat D. but don't always agree with his preaching... Look at the differences in the above article regarding hand spacing, knuckle alignment. I don't see those as a big deal.

            As for WTA, yes. It's a race to accumulate footage with all the new men's players being at the top of my filming list. Just being honest. 90% of our subscribers are men and I hope to have enough footage of whichever new guy wins the next Slam to put up a full portrait. With all the You Tube fuckers abusing the rules and filming illegally it's had a restrictive effect on us--painted with the same brush unfairly!. That said if you look through the Forum over the past 3 years there are mini portraits of a lot of the top women. Halep, Kerber, Keys, Osaka, Sloane, Coco, Barty and others.

            https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...ast_forum.html

            It's an interesting question what to show students. Obviously most of the women have big behind the body backswings. Not that they don't work because they do. My fear is showing that as a model could lead to even bigger more exaggerated backswings as players try to copy positions. My own approach is to show women the compact guys--Fed, Grigor, but then see. Never had awoman that developed a pure ATP motion, but I think the compact model probably moderates the huge wind ups.
            hehe, as a smaller man (5'4"), i actually study the wta way more closely than i study the men (ie. i'll never be an 6"+)
            and while the women are still lightyears ahead of me in talent/technique/reps/etc..., i'm waay closer to approaching their level of game play (compared to ATP)
            so i feel i learn much more from studying the women particularly those of similar stature (henin, cibulkova, davis, halep, etc...)... side note, a much more petite falconi beat me when she was 12y :P
            recently i've been studying the heck out of niculescu's slice fh (particularly for me to use as a change of pace, approach shot, defensive shot, attacking shot (ie. when opponent steps back expecting me to blast forehead))

            interesting, i didn't realize that it was illegal to film and post on yt.

            regarding atp vs. wta swings... perhaps focus on players who have swing paths that you like to promote (eg. henin, stosur immediately come to mind). i certainly would be interested in content like this.

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            • Originally posted by stotty View Post

              Me neither. I just go for the shaved down backswing. A couple of girls I coach (may post one of the forum) stay on the right side of their body with their backswings. Interesting thing is - when compared to girls with huge backswings - they don't gain power but does't lose it either. What they do gain is more reliability and so the ability to rally longer. That's got to be worth something. I am settling for that right now until someone pops up with a silver bullet.
              IMO the biggest benefit of a shorter backswing is the increase in opportunities to take the ball earlier, taking time away from opponents, and/or approaching net...
              folks with big windups tend to stay back more, blast from the baseline, and never develop a forecourt game.
              i find the increase in rhs/spin/etc... has more to do with continuity of stroke... any time you can avoid a pause or hitch in your backswing (an exaggerated picture that comes to mind is serena's bh), you make use of the full "runway" of the stroke to build up rhs. that said, a compact stroke is easier to time, and for me leads to a more frequent continuous strokes.

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              • Originally posted by nytennisaddict View Post

                IMO the biggest benefit of a shorter backswing is the increase in opportunities to take the ball earlier, taking time away from opponents, and/or approaching net...
                folks with big windups tend to stay back more, blast from the baseline, and never develop a forecourt game.
                i find the increase in rhs/spin/etc... has more to do with continuity of stroke... any time you can avoid a pause or hitch in your backswing (an exaggerated picture that comes to mind is serena's bh), you make use of the full "runway" of the stroke to build up rhs. that said, a compact stroke is easier to time, and for me leads to a more frequent continuous strokes.

                ​​​​​​FWIW I spent 6 weeks this summer with an ATP coach building a pause into my strokes.

                The gist of it is to prepare more slowly, but sooner pause and hit.

                Throw a medicine ball or swing a sledgehammer, notice that you will naturally pause.

                J

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                • Originally posted by J011yroger View Post


                  ​​​​​​FWIW I spent 6 weeks this summer with an ATP coach building a pause into my strokes.

                  The gist of it is to prepare more slowly, but sooner pause and hit.

                  Throw a medicine ball or swing a sledgehammer, notice that you will naturally pause.

                  J
                  interesting.
                  where is the pause?
                  in general, i actively try to pause (at a partial unit turn position?) ust before i start my swing (on the "bounce" part of "bounce+hit")...
                  but once i start my swing i try to complete the entire swing continuously (unit turn, pat dog, flip, etc..)
                  the size of my backswing is dictated by how much time i have between "bounce" and "hit".

                  when i'm thwoing a medicine ball, the pause is just before i start my throw motion... but the thrown is a circular swing.
                  similarly when swinging a sledgehammer (i've trained quite a bit of filippino martial arts (eg. stick/sword fighting), and we often swing axe handles for conditioning, and sync'ing hand/body mechanics),... the pause happens before i start my swing, but once i swing, i never try to pause the axe/sledge (i would hurt my wrist if i did)... side note, one of the common moves reminds of the kyrgios forehand (stick pointing at the enemy before doing an upward strike in a loop that looks like nk fh)

                  perhaps i'm misinterpretting when/what the pause you're describing is?
                  Last edited by nytennisaddict; 12-19-2019, 07:54 AM.

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                  • Just at the end of the takeback. I think we are on the same page.

                    J

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                    • A true pause? I don't see that in any high speed video. What am I missing?

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                      • @JY & NYTA, let me take a while to get my thoughts together and make one post. I'm not saying it's good to stand there with your racquet back waiting for the ball like they taught in 1972.

                        J

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                        • Sounds good sounds like maybe a rhythm thing.

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                          • Ok, here goes.

                            I have been thinking about how to get this in words and I'm still struggling a little, so forgive me if I jump around a bit.

                            Usually when you say something is a continuous motion people think of it as either a steady speed, or perpetually accelerating; but that is not what we want.

                            When you breathe your lungs are in continuous motion, it is rare for one to hold their breath, but a focus technique to help you become present is to make yourself aware of the exact moments between inhale and exhale.

                            If someone attempts a continuous motion and wants to hit the ball hard they are going to move their racquet too fast in the takeback which will firstly lead to late, rushed preparation, and secondly by going too fast backwards and up the will have to use effort to move the racquet back, and then extra effort to make the turn. All of this causes tightness in the shoulder which will sap speed, inhibit extension, and cause pulling across the body.

                            Ideally, you unit turn early and slowly stretching across the torso as you get hip/shoulder separation, and build a little potential energy as your hand is slightly above where it will be at contact. This is where the pause is, the actuality of it or duration is determined by your timing, available time, and your footwork. Ideally it is not a real pause, but a slowdown where the racquet will kind of float along it's path in a sort of zero gravity effect because ok why would you just be standing there with your racquet up in the air waiting for the ball when you could be attacking the ball with you feet and taking time away from your opponent. Fed is a great example, sometimes he is swinging before the ball bounces, no time to waste there.

                            From the pause your arm is relaxed and falls into the slot with minimal effort and a little help from gravity, then when your hand gets to the right spot you turn on the gas and swing to the outside of the ball.

                            When I watch for timing and this sort of stuff it's much easier for me to see in regular speed as opposed to high speed, you can get a much better feeling for how much everything slows down at "the pause."

                            Especially watch warm up videos or practice sessions where the players are hitting slower to find their timing.

                            J

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                            • To achieve "International Level" strokes, Louis Cayer describes it in terms of "rhythm" and "momentum". Rhythm is the use of the hands/racquet, momentum is the use of the body. Cayer describes it as "come with care to the ball" but start the stroke at "contact". Start the hand/racquet speed and the body angular momentum at contact with the ball. "Have an obvious change of racquet speed at contact". Google - Louis Cayer - Technical training? It depends. Fascinating to watch the strokes go to a different level with simple advise.
                              Last edited by seano; 12-20-2019, 08:06 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seano View Post
                                To achieve "International Level" strokes, Louis Cayer describes it in terms of "rhythm" and "momentum". Rhythm is the use of the hands/racquet, momentum is the use of the body. Cayer describes it as "come with care to the ball" but start the stroke at "contact". Start the hand/racquet speed and the body angular momentum at contact with the ball. "Have an obvious change of racquet speed at contact". Google - Louis Cayer - Technical training? It depends. Fascinating to watch the strokes go to a different level with simple advise.
                                I love his doubles videos.

                                J

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